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#1 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 04:58 PM

Detector companies bug me. I can spec out a perfect detector I know I would buy so I know others would buy, and I know the technology exists. My perfect VLF gold machine would be similar to the White's DFX. Dual frequency with the ability to run both at once or either only. Usually that means a harmonic like 15 kHz and 60 kHz but I am going to get greedy and ask for 15 kHz and 90 kHz. Run both together or either one separately. The unit should also have a DFX like ability to notch out not only any target types but also multiple ground types. I want to be able to notch out the ground and also notch out a certain hot rock. In other words, more than one ground balance setting.

Who is going to do it first so I can buy it? And sell a bunch also. Sorry Steve, we don't ask our users what they want. We just make stuff and tell people they want it. Why listen to people who have bought by themselves more detectors than a small town and who will continue to buy them until they die?

The most impressive dealer meeting I ever attended was a Honda Power Equipment meeting. It was full of engineers asking "what do you want? What do your customers want?" Why is it so few companies get that? I know what I want, I know what my customers want, and nobody will make it for me. What is up with that? Do not tell me it will cost too much for people to buy. I have over $10,000 invested in detecting gear. I will pay a premium for a premium niche detector and so will others.

Hello, over here, I am your customer, I want to give you my money. Hello! Hello!! Anybody home? Hello!

Steve Herschbach
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#2 Capt. D.

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 05:29 PM

Hello Steve. You are so right. But if the companies made everything that we want in 1 maching then they would sell alot of that one product. The way they have it not a consumer must buy 2 or more items to get what they want. I wish they could develope a PI / VLF machine. I guess it would be called the GPX Bug, or Eureka GPX just flip a switch between the two.

Anyway you having a bad day or what? I havnt seen you post a msg like this before.

Bill
Bill

#3 FlakMagnet

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:17 PM

Capt. D.

Saying that you haven't heard Steve post like this before

tells me you missed his posts in this thread.

http://www.nuggethun...topic=8898&st=0

Mr. Herschbach has been on a tear this week.


Steve,

Your suggestion is right on target.
Incremental increases in detector capability may make some kind of marketing sense
kind of like changing the length of women's skirts every year,
but if a company risked making the most complete unit possible
with the overriding selections for inclusion based on customer recommendations,
I would bet their sales would not only be good in the short run but better in the long run
as word of mouth spread.

Wonder if Santa reads the forum.







#4 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:20 PM

1324081798[/url]' post='61245']
Anyway you having a bad day or what? I havnt seen you post a msg like this before.

Bill


Ha, ha, ha ha, ha, Oh My God Bill I am having the time of my life. I am seriously po'd by the less than perfect standards of some people who work for me and I am going to kick their posteriors. I expect my people to have the love and passion I have or they need to get off the bus. I am tired of people with no passion for what they do (thanks JP). I live and breath detecting and it truly, to say it nicely, it bothers me that I have to beg companies to give me what I want. I could go on a real rant on the subject but I will leave it at that.

Jonathan Porter said something to me that I will for the rest of my life owe him for. He said he is a passionate person. I never looked at it that way. I just thought I knew about this or that. I was wrong. I care and I care deeply about what I do. I am worthless in 99.99% of what there is out there but in the tiny world of things I care about I care 1000%. I care about my family, I care about my friends, I care about my job, and I care about my profession, which is prospecting and metal detecting. There is nothing else I can think of I care about. Four things in the world I would pretty much die for. So thank you JP, my friend, for helping me understand what life is about. It is about having passion for what you do.

Steve Herschach

P.S. I care about my country also but in an indirect way. I care about the people far braver than I who care enough to offer up their lives so people like me can afford to care about our less important concerns. Thank God for the men and women in the milittary who protect me and allow me a life which I am so passionate about but which means nothing without them.

#5 Capt. D.

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:24 PM

Capt. D.

Saying that you haven't heard Steve post like this before

tells me you missed his posts in this thread.

http://www.nuggethun...topic=8898&st=0

Mr. Herschbach has been on a tear this week.


Steve,

Your suggestion is right on target.
Incremental increases in detector capability may make some kind of marketing sense
kind of like changing the length of women's skirts every year,
but if a company risked making the most complete unit possible
with the overriding selections for inclusion based on customer recommendations,
I would bet their sales would not only be good in the short run but better in the long run
as word of mouth spread.

Wonder if Santa reads the forum.


Yes I read that post but after i had made my reply. I respect both Steve and Ray and put value in both their openions. I hope Ray doesnt just quit over a disagreement.

Bill
Bill

#6 Capt. D.

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:27 PM

Ha, ha, ha ha, ha, Oh My God Bill I am having the time of my life. I am seriously po'd by the less than perfect standards of some people who work for me and I am going to kick their posteriors. I expect my people to have the love and passion I have or they need to get off the bus. I am tired of people with no passion for what they do (thanks JP). I live and breath detecting and it truly, to say it nicely, it bothers me that I have to beg companies to give me what I want. I could go on a real rant on the subject but I will leave it at that.
Jonathan Porter said something to me that I will for the rest of my life owe him for. He said he is a passionate person. I never looked at it that way. I just thought I knew about this or that. I was wrong. I care and I care deeply about what I do. I am worthless in 99.99% of what there is out there but in the tiny world of things I care about I care 1000%. I care about my family, I care about my friends, I care about my job, and I care about my profession, which is prospecting and metal detecting. There is nothing else I can think of I care about. Four things in the world I would pretty much die for. So thank you JP, my friend, for helping me understand what life is about. It is about having passion for what you do.


Steve I think you are right. We all need to be passionate about what we do. If everyone were, then everything would be better from the products we build to our personal relationships. This is a great way to live. Keep enjoying life.

Bill
Bill

#7 FlakMagnet

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:35 PM

Steve,

I am an amateur prospector as most of us are on this forum
but being passionate about the small areas in life I hold close to me
is a powerful spark that gives meaning to all the rest of my life.

Without being cute about it, I do not think you are the first person
who owe's JP a tip of the hat for being outspokenly passionate about what he does and generous with how he does it.
It seems that trip to WA provided many kinds of gold.

Good Holidays to you and your customers.

#8 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

Hi Bill and Flak,

Funny stuff posting while others are posting so we all get mixed up.

Yeah, if Ray goes away it is a loss I would regret and be sorry for.

I edited my last post. Because there are things I really care about and miss on first edit. Our women and men in the military. So five things I care about in my limited obsessive/compulsive way.

Merry Christmas All! From Steve Herschbach

#9 paratrooper

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 08:25 PM

I would have to think that your love and respect for the military comes from having a PARATROOPER for a dad. I served with him in Charlie AIRBORNE at Fort Rich. Tell him "Bergie" says AIRBORNE!!!!!

Tom in Kingman AZ
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Kingman Lodge #22 F&AM Kingman AZ
U.S. PARATROOPER '64-'66


#10 montana

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:59 PM

Steve. Obsessive compulsive is exactly what Betsy calls my passions in life, and I must agree with her. I have discovered salmon and steelhead fishing here in Ca, and I've been making the 100 mile round trip every other day for weeks now. What a blast !!! The gold can wait for the time being but I'm going to have to find some gold to cover expenses soon. Here's a nice steelie I caught today 31 inches long and 9.5 Lbs. I hope the casting is keeping my arm in shape for detecting.----Bob

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#11 Rob Allison

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:05 PM

Hey Steve,

Have to agree with you. I have one good example about a Minelab product a friend designed about 15 years ago. A good friend and mentor, designed a home-make push button handle for his SD2000 and then SD2100 with some Radio Shack products. He brought the idea up to Minelab many times, but they thought it was a stupid idea. The SD2200 came out, no push button handle, the GP Extreme ... no handle, GP3000 no handle, oh, the GP3500 had a handle with a ground balance push button. Hey, it was only about 8 years later.

I'm still waiting for them to make a lightweight PI, or at least a hip-mountable PI unit. I told them customers have requested this for the last 10-15 years, but we still haven't seen it.

Just a couple of examples.
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#12 seeker

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 12:52 AM

Yikes I have known for a very long time there was something wrong with me LOL.....I did manage to get rid of some of my toys one time, a sort of housecleaning, it was like pulling teeth.....Well I do know one thing it is infectious and there is no cure as I have had it for over 40 yrs .....Good Hunting Everyone........Geo

#13 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 06:40 AM

1324092325[/url]' post='61263']
I would have to think that your love and respect for the military comes from having a PARATROOPER for a dad. I served with him in Charlie AIRBORNE at Fort Rich. Tell him "Bergie" says AIRBORNE!!!!!

There are people I have never met who are willing to die for me. Not me personally but as a countryman. I have a hard time getting my head around that. I walk up to people in uniform I have never met and thank them for being so brave. I have done a thing or two but I will never measure up to the anyone in the military past or present. You people astound me.

It is 4:30 AM and I am tearing up. You hit the nail on the head with that one. I promise he will get the message. Merry Christmas and God Bless Bergie!

#14 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 07:26 AM

Rob, are you saying they might think about taking the GPX 5000 out of the SD 2000 box? Obviously you are just another crazy person. You have to wonder why they do not lock us in a room and throw away the key.

I told a few people at work that suggestions are worthless. I need people who can do things, not suggest them. That is my workplace ethic, but when it comes to customers I am all about wanting, needing, and listening to their suggestions. Check out https://amds.uservoi...edback-for-amds

I am the ultimate metal detector consumer. I am a top notch dealer. But the powers that be never send me a survey. Never, not once in 40 years have I as a customer got a survey asking me what I want.

They may know technology but they have a lot to learn about customer care. If I were not otherwise occupied I could put most of them out of business. I would not have to build a better detector. I would just have to engage my customers better than any of them and that would be a piece of cake.

I hope you and yours a very Merry Christmas Rob.

Steve Herschbach

#15 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:00 AM

Yikes Bob, nice fish!

Merry Christmas to you and your family,

Steve Herschbach

#16 nvchris

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:05 AM

Hi Steve,
Have you ever tried the Sovereign for prospecting?
Coiltek makes a Joey DD for it……….

#17 El Dorado

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 10:52 AM

Steve
Thanks so much for your reverence to our Military!

Anytime a person is passionate about anything, success will be theirs.

A super detector as you describe would be fantastic, but I am still trying to learn my ol' 4500 and GB II!
Steve Wandt
www.naturalgoldjewelry.com

#18 Steve Herschbach

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 11:54 AM

Hi Chris,
The Sov is locked into multi freq mode. You have to also have the ability to select for a single frequency as in most cases that works better for nugget detecting. Multi-freq and single freq both are useful so I want both. The Sov can't find nuggets a GB2 will scream on.

#19 Reno Chris

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 03:27 PM

Steve - I know what you mean. You mention the DFX, but the problem there is gain. I think the Eureka is also underpowered when it comes to sufficient gain to properly do the job. Of course it's not that simple as jacking up the gain causes some other very real problems.

We need a user selectable, digital, multi-frequency machine, with the gain sufficient to find very tiny gold like the GBII. The problem is that doing a digital GBII isn't going to be easy. We've talked about that – in my interview with him Dave admitted it would be "difficult". I got the drift that he was more optimistic about multi frequency machines. I just don't want a multi-frequency machine that runs at medium and lower - 18 and 4 kHz. Without the upper frequency stuff like the GBII or the Goldmasters, it's not what I am looking for.

I honestly think we could all come to a pretty close agreement on what we'd be looking for in a top flight VLF detector that was within the reaches of current technologies. The problem is that the makers produce what they think will sell well, not cost too much to make and is not too difficult to design. You are right that none of them listen too closely to what their customers want to buy. Perhaps we need to speak louder and let our requests be known to all of them?

Here is what I think is a reasonable list of features, all of which are found in one form or another on VLF machines currently on the market, just no one machine with all of them. Why can't they be combined? I'd be interested in comments on what realistic additions would be necessary to make a top of the line, cutting edge VLF for prospecting?

Multi-frequency with user selectable High (60 to 90 kHz) and medium frequency (15 to 20 kHz).

Dual frequency operation option.

Gain sufficient to find very small gold in the high frequency setting (must at least equal the GBII).

Ability to discriminate out hot rocks.

Ability to handle fairly highly mineralized ground – even if only in a special discrimination mode.

Ability to notch out not only any target types but also multiple ground types, so the operator can notch out the ground and also notch out a certain hot rocks. In other words, more than one ground balance setting.

Memory to save notch and discrimination settings for various locations.

Digital design with a controlled volume output, maximum signal loudness limitations, threshold loudness control, variable audio tone, adjustable gain.

Both manual and automatic ground balance adjustments.

Tracking mode option.

Digital display of GB, GB settings and target response.

Selection of different sizes of coils in both concentric and DD configurations.

EMI noise reduction adjustments.



The other thing is that everyone is now making the same thing - mid range htz, "do it all" machines powerful enough to do a decent job on gold but with a sufficient discrimination to use for jewelry and coin shooting. The problem is that "do it all" machines by nature must make compromises. We have the MXT, Tesoro Lobo, T2, GB Pro, F75, AT Gold, XTerra 705, etc. - it's too much of the same thing over and over slightly re-done and re-packaged. Yes, each model has its own subtle differences, but they are all in the same design class. The manufacturers have figured out these are popular detectors (and my guess is that they are not that difficult for a good EE to design), but how many similar ones do we need? Half ton pick-ups have long been the best selling vehicle in America, but what if the only car any of the manufacturers made was a half-ton pick up, it would be a pretty sorry situation.

We've all heard the saying "Build a better mousetrap wand the world will beat a path to your door" – We just seem to be stuck in "build a mousetrap like everyone else and you can keep your head above water."

Steve, you have a great holidays, say hello to the family and get some sleep my friend. 4 am is a little late to be up posting on forums. :lol:

#20 montana

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:02 AM

Steve and Chris. I've been saying it for years, the detector business is the only type of electronics manufacturer that is still stuck in the dark ages. cell phones , Ipads, computers etc. are all re-designed at least yearly with cutting edge technology upgrades. So POWERFUL and so cheap. The technology is there but the engineers with the PASSION go where the money and the glory is. I too am deeply grateful to our military and very happy that many of the guys are back home from Iraq or on their way and will be home for Christmas . There could not have been many pleasant days for them over there . Thanks!!!!----Bob




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