What PI detector did you find you biggest nugget with?


Guest goldstudmuffin

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Nero you do talk some utter rubbish! You have floated this silly idea before and it has been thoroughly discredited! It has NO EM basis whatsover!

doug

Doug, I find your posts here and elsewhere to be designed to be offensive and deliberately provoking. And you do it here because you mistakenly assume that your bullish behavior has credibility here. This idea is neither silly, nor has it ever been discredited. But your belligerence on the subject shows us all once again how limited your scope of imagination is. And this is why you will continue to falter in the field. Because you are so hell-bent on pointing out other people's inferred mistakes (real or imagined) that you miss the opportunity to use a little imagination of your own.

I came to the idea after taking on a bet between another prospector/dealer and myself to prove whether or not the GPX could find big gold locally because neither of us had seen first hand examples beyond the usual handful of sub-ounce nuggets. The first thing I needed to do was determine why the SDs were still being used to pull up the big stuff. And my only link was not the detectors themselves but in how they were applied. And the weakest link appeared to be the obvious difference in coil preferences. I then came across an old issue of Australia's Gold,Gem & Treasure magazine which ran an article some years ago *(written by a highly respected member of the Prospecting community ... who may have worked at Coiltek for a time). And this writer stated outright that the Double-D's could penetrate dual layers of mineralization where the Monoloops could not (in many cases) do so. He was also making reference to some of the Coiltek DD coils which at the time produced a denser field by drawing slightly more energy from the battery. The resulting field was capable of penetrating dual mineralization where the Monoloop could not. I have spoken to Trevor about this so I know it to be true. My belief (be it right or wrong) is that this was an obvious explanation to the unexplained success of the SD Vs GPX on large nuggets at depth. The Author himself from the magazine has chimed in on the matter elsewhere and I'd welcome him here to offer any further suggestions if he cares.

As for Doug, I believe you owe me an apology. I don't presume that you'll offer one because you already know what I posted above - which means you are attempting to annoy me again. Just because I disagreed openly with Jonathan Porter on the issue, doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong about it. He's a very skilled operator himself but I'm not approaching this problem from the same direction as JP.

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Doug,

you better watch yourself with nero, I think he has picked up his skirts and departed to read 5 more copies of GG&T,

Be very careful! When he returns, he will know twice as much as he did before he departed. :rolleyes:

AzNuggetBob,

as much as I hate to do it, I...gulp...have to agree with DDDD...oug, cough. :rolleyes:

We have plenty of all sorts of hot layered ground out here.

The mono will always win IF you can hear the target through the ground noise.

With the older GP's, If things are too noisy, you must use a DD, but it won't be going deeper then the mono,

you will just be able to hear any targets within range of that DD.

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Inhere: I heard you were identified as 'Doug' under another moniker? With two posts back-to-back on the insult wagon, I'm not at all surprised. If you can't come up with a theory of your own, perhaps I might be persuaded to lend you some of those GG&T mags ...so you can fill in time between logging out under one name, and logging back in under another? LOL.

Re the subject at hand: The article which supported my theory was by Jim Foster. I THINK that the issue was in 2004. Either way, he pointed out in the same body of work that a Minelab rep was telling Detectorists that Monoloops were capable of deeper detecting - and were probably the future. He said the prospectors laughed at him and went back to their Double-Ds. Now I see that the Monoloops are the preferred coil of choice for most detectorists.

I've said before that I'm just putting the idea out there.... I'm curious to see if this is the reason why the SD's are still preferred for the big stuff.

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Doug,

you better watch yourself with nero, I think he has picked up his skirts and departed to read 5 more copies of GG&T,

Be very careful! When he returns, he will know twice as much as he did before he departed. :rolleyes:

AzNuggetBob,

as much as I hate to do it, I...gulp...have to agree with DDDD...oug, cough. :rolleyes:

We have plenty of all sorts of hot layered ground out here.

The mono will always win IF you can hear the target through the ground noise.

With the older GP's, If things are too noisy, you must use a DD, but it won't be going deeper then the mono,

you will just be able to hear any targets within range of that DD.

as far as the pros and cons of dd coils on these formations dd"s always deal with these types of ground better than monos but monos can penitrate deeper in some hot grounds if you know how to deal with it.. AzNuggetBob

Inhere Here is the last line in my comment, why dont you point out were it says mono's dont go deeper??? AzNuggetbob

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Guys Some people have nick named me the mono maniac. I will use mono coils in ground others will say forget it. they can out shoot DD's in hot ground. the problem is they are noisy and most just give up and resort to their quieter DD's Doug you sound like all your info is coming from lab tests rather than actual field experience. Everyone that has tryed to duplicate field conditions in a lab type environment knows that it is extremely difficult to do. I'll tell you how I do it. I call it mental discrimination. Its really quite simple. you must listen to a barrage of false signals and train your mind to pick out the occational good one from all the bad ones. Most people cant handle it!!!. its very frustrating to most people But it works. AzNuggetBob

And Doug Im here to exchange ideas not get into a pissin match!

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Bob, I completely agree with you on "mental discrimination" concept...My old 2100 can be really noisey at times in hot ground, but there is an almost organic relationship between my ears and that old machine...Bill Southern once told me he enjoys trying to figure out the shape of the target--gold or otherwise--from the tone, and I think that when you've put in the hours, months, years to learn your machine, you virtually always can weed the good targets from the ground noise...Cheers, Unc

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Guest Mike C...
Bob, I completely agree with you on "mental discrimination" concept...My old 2100 can be really noisey at times in hot ground, but there is an almost organic relationship between my ears and that old machine...Bill Southern once told me he enjoys trying to figure out the shape of the target--gold or otherwise--from the tone, and I think that when you've put in the hours, months, years to learn your machine, you virtually always can weed the good targets from the ground noise...Cheers, Unc

Ron you can tell the shape of a target--I mean if its triangler/square or round :blink: could you show me how to do that :blush: Do you know how to tell if its lead or gold as well--I still have'nt been able to work that one out-maybe one of you detector Guru's can enlightens us all :mellow: --still learning ;) -Mike C... :ph34r:

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Ya know Mike we could do with out another smart ass here. :P But yes I agree with you Lead is one that I can not decern unfortunately and anyone that says they can I will disagree with. The metals are to similar as far as a detector is concerned. and yes Mike I to can also tell whether a target is flat and turned up on its side or whether its longer or rounder. Thanks for your question. AzNuggetBob

Mike here is a little test you can try. Take a coin and bury it tilted up on one side, then swing over it in both directions if you cant hear a difference in the signal response, all I can say is good luck.

Mike I have found plenty of nuggets that were passed over because they skipped (flat nugget layed up on side)and most people thought they were Junk and left them. ;)

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Guest Mike C...

You know Bob I've heard people make claims before about they could tell lead from gold and I have been at this for at least a few years or so and still have'nt got to that level yet and besides it does'nt make a difference what sound it makes to me I dig most of them anyways-unless I'm in a hurry then I use audio disk by ear-you just never know---I have dug nuggets with the doulbe beep sound that sounded just like iron or a nail and yes I can tell if its a big or little target--but the shape of it---come on :blink: still learning the ropes :mellow: -Mike C... :ph34r:

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Actually I didn't say anything about telling lead from gold, but with my old GoldBug2 in disc I absolutely can....My ML is a different story tho' ... Also, if you read my comment I said Bill says he likes to "try" to tell the shape of a target from the sound he's getting ... "Try" is the operational word...Cheers, Unc

PS...It would be a real thrill if we could have a thread going without Doug trying to hi-jack it... :spank:

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Mike when the nuggets are closer to round or exceptionally deep I cant tell the difference but if the nugget is longer it will change its audio response when swung over at different angles and this sometimes fools people into thinking its junk. Ive found nuggets like this to many times in beat patches and the nuggets were so shallow I know others had to have hit them and wrote them off. I have doubts myself sometimes and will dig a piece of garbage from time to time just to confirm its garbage. there always seem to be exceptions to the rule and Im not a 100% sure that I have not left a nugget using some of these techniques but it has saved me digging a lot of garbage but unfortunately my bullet collection continues to grow at an alarming pace. :lol:

AzNuggetBob

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Hey Guys,

I got out in the field for day and there are 2 more complete pages ... :girl:

Goldstudmuffin - Yes, I have found probably 4-5 big gold nuggets I missed in old patches. Two of my first ones I found were in an old patch at Rich Hill. I hunted this patch probably a 100 times, but never with a coil over 14-inches round. The old Coiltek 14-inch Mono Round was one of my favorite patch hunting coils and I used it on the SD2000, SD2100 and for a short time on the SD2200d. I found a couple of pounds in this one patch, biggest nugget was 1.2 ounces solid with the SD2100 right when it was released. I didn't find much of anything with the SD2200d in this patch behind the SD2100.

When the GP Extreme was first introduced, Minelab claimed it would go 55% deeper on smaller gold and 18% deeper on bigger gold over the SD series. Well, this patch I'm telling you about was the first place I visited. I used all the same accessories and coils to keep the test the same, only difference was detectors.

Within 2-3 hours of crawling across this patch, I found 7 Dwt plus nuggets at depth. Right away I knew Minelab's claims were spot on with smaller gold at depth. I was really impressed. I just knew there had to be a bigger nugget though, so I continued to crawl across this patch and scanned around the edges of a larger boulder. I knew this spot before, because I actually scratched on it, but never got a signal. This time I was getting a faint whisper, so I was mind-boggled. I dug down a few more inches and the target got more defined. Low and behold the target was a 17 Dwter down about 14-inches if I remember correctly. Below that target I re-scanned and heard another target, it was 1.4 ounces! :o

I hit several other patches within the next month and found a handful of Dwt plus nuggets, but no more biggies for some time.

I found a couple of other nice ones in the Quartzsite region during that time, one beauty that was 1.83 ounces.

AZNuggetBob - I'm getting rusty now. Spending too much time watching others detect if you know what I mean. :lol:

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Hey Guys,

Talking about knowing what targets you're digging, I think it comes with experience. The #1 target that fools me the most is a deep, faint boot tack. For some reason these damn things sound just like a deep gold nugget. Lead really don't fool me much, but I think the main reason is target location. If you have dug enough gold nuggets, you get a good feel on a target by not only the sound, but more so the location of the target.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Guest goldstudmuffin
I knew this spot before, because I actually scratched on it, but never got a signal. This time I was getting a faint whisper, so I was mind-boggled. I dug down a few more inches and the target got more defined. Low and behold the target was a 17 Dwter down about 14-inches if I remember correctly. Below that target I re-scanned and heard another target, it was 1.4 ounces! :o

Rob Allison

Hi Rob,

That doesn't count! :blink::rolleyes:

You must have thought you heard it to scratch on it. It's to bad no one had any modds for the 2100 back then, you may still be using the 2100. :blush: The modds make a pretty good difference on the 2100's.

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Guest goldstudmuffin
Hey Guys,

Talking about knowing what targets you're digging, I think it comes with experience. The #1 target that fools me the most is a deep, faint boot tack. For some reason these damn things sound just like a deep gold nugget. Lead really don't fool me much, but I think the main reason is target location. If you have dug enough gold nuggets, you get a good feel on a target by not only the sound, but more so the location of the target.

Take care,

Rob Allison

A deep boot tack will fool me every time.

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Guest goldstudmuffin
I tested a Woody modified SD2100V2 against my GPX-4500.

Woody adds 3 new timings on the SD2100V2.

Timing 1.) 30% faster than original timing.

Timing 2.) 10% faster than original timing.

Timing 3.) 40% slower than original timing.

For small gold targets:

The first two timings give improved depth on small gold with timing 1 being the best on small targets.

In timing 1, I can get almost the same depth (in air) as the GPX-4500 running in Enhance on a 0.40 gram nugget for example.

For big gold targets: (ounces)

GPX-4500 in Sensitive Extra.....The Modified SD2100V2 beats it in all timings.

GPX-4500 in Enhance.....The Modified SD2100V2 almost matches it in Timing 1 & 2 and beats it in Timing 3 but the gold better be large.

GPX-4500 in Normal.......The Modified SD2100V2 only matches it in timing 3 but gets beat on timing 1 & 2.

Now, keep in mind that these are AIR tests. (With Mono coils as the stock 11" DD coil didn't produce the same results)

The GPX-4500 is less noisy on mineralized ground which is great for hunting small & medium pieces of gold.

The SD2100V2 is more fatiguing to listen to especially when running timing 1 with hot rocks.

Timing 2 ignores hot rocks almost as well as the GPX-4500 but loses the smaller gold targets.

Timing 3 almost completely ignores hot rocks/mineralization and goes about as deep as normal timings on large targets.

If you were always hunting big targets then timing 3 on the SD2100V2 would be superior because normal timings on the GPX-4500 can't handle high mineralization well.

Timing 3 might even go deeper than normal timings but I haven't tested it on gigantic nuggets. I don't have any of those to test.

Conclusion, the GPX-4500 is a more pleasurable to use general purpose machine. It is superior when looking for small & medium targets.

The modified SD2100V2 about matches the GPX-4500 on medium targets and matches or beats on larger targets (ounces) but is not quite as stable. (but close on the newer V2 machines)

Really, I think detecting is about time management. If you are walking around with a machine that hears all the small, medium, and large pieces of gold you

will spend your day digging those small, medium, and large targets. If you walk around with a machine that hears only the larger targets you will spend your

day digging only the bigger ones. (leaving the dinks for Rob) Given a choice I would choose the GPX-4500 running in Enhance in my area most of the time but feel I would find 100% of the medium & larger

GPX-4500 targets using the modified SD2100V2 in timing 2. Timing 3 is reserved for special occasions because as we all know huge nuggets are not very common in the USA. (at least for me)

I am going to try to use my SD2100V2 (which has been my backup machine) a little more from now on to see what happens.

Recently, I buried a flat medium sized 6 gram nugget in some extremely mineralized gravel and the SD2100V2 (timing 2) and GPX-4500 both heard the nugget just fine at depth.

(FYI: I am using a Goldscreamer Amp, Pocket Rocket, Black Widow headphones, and the machine has been modded on the SD2100V2. The mono coils used during testing were the 12" Round & 14x9" Advantage coils and

the Goldstalker 14x9" coil.)

Best Regards,

Don

Don, thanks for the reply. I'm somewhat familiar with Ismeal's new internal modds, but not Woody's. Does Woody boost the voltage up with his Modds or do anything with channel 2 ground balance? Where can I get more info about these modds and a price?

Is everyone happy that has done the Woody 2100 modd? Thanks, Russ

PS never mind... I found his page, he also does Minelab repairs and says he has plenty of parts.

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Goldstudmuffin. I really can't answer your question on coils bigger than 18" because my biggest coil is a 16" . just too much hassle swinging a monster coil with the interference they pick up in our area. I know why you ask and I don't think you will gain a lot on that spot because no matter what Pi you put a 24" coil on in that area will be EMI noisy and may negate any depth you could theoreticly gain. I'm happy swinging a 14" round where I detect because that seems to be the biggest I can go and keep the interference at bay. I got a one ouncer at 18" with it this spring, and also got a 4 ouncer at 18" with my 14" elip. this spring. Both were decent signals but the one ouncer was the strongest using the round coil. Knowing almost for sure that there are still some just a little deeper can drive you nuts , but I think a bulldozer is the way to go if permits can be obtained. You may have done everything you can with the detectors available now.

I still believe that the SD2000 has the best depth capabilities if the ground is compatible. The 4500 with the wide choice of timings and a modded 2100 with a choice of timings can probably outdo it on some ground types for depth on big nuggets. It's the variables that make it impossible to answer some questions. No bench test or no feild test can be taken as gospel for that reason in my opinion and in fact I pay absolutely no attention to them. I just weigh my nuggets at the end of the season and that answers any questions I might have. If I do as well as I did the year before or better, then I'm tickled pink with my latest detector and coils. And if it's more pleasant to run then that's just icing on the cake! What I leave behind doesn't concern me nears as much as what I'm finding. I'll get the ones I missed eventually . Dougs buddies will have a detector out any day now that will turn the detecting world upside down. Cheers----Bob

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Guest Mike C...
Actually I didn't say anything about telling lead from gold, but with my old GoldBug2 in disc I absolutely can....My ML is a different story tho' ... Also, if you read my comment I said Bill says he likes to "try" to tell the shape of a target from the sound he's getting ... "Try" is the operational word...Cheers, Unc

PS...It would be a real thrill if we could have a thread going without Doug trying to hi-jack it... :spank:

Sorry Ron I was'nt trying to start any $^%& just trying to figure out what you all are hearing that I'm not :blink: as far as this Doug thing goes I like hearing new things and ideas--its very refreshing to me-now if it would just happen :wacko: --I kinda get sick of the same old same old stagnation that affects most forums sooner or later-nothing new--it does seem like they are trying to stir things up but at least their trying to come up with something to compete with the king of the hill and trying to make old technology better with the modds--I had some modds done to a SD2000 by finders which made it way better ;) wish I still had it :blush: just my 2 centavos worth---Mike C... :ph34r:

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Don, thanks for the reply. I'm somewhat familiar with Ismeal's new internal modds, but not Woody's. Does Woody boost the voltage up with his Modds or do anything with channel 2 ground balance? Where can I get more info about these modds and a price?

Is everyone happy that has done the Woody 2100 modd? Thanks, Russ

PS never mind... I found his page, he also does Minelab repairs and says he has plenty of parts.

Hello Goldstudmuffin,

Yes, his website is detectormods.com (Please contact him for pricing)

He doesn't raise the voltage but my pocket rocket does at 7.3V. You also need the AMP on these machines.

Woody did do some other things to the SD2100V2 as well. He added some anti-interference circuitry to quiet it down.

Ground balance in channel 2 needs a new resistor in order to ground balance in timing 1.

There is a hot rock reject switch added but that doesn't have much effect. (Maybe 5% reduction...I would skip that one)

If hot rocks are really bad timing 2 and 3 already ignore most hot rocks.

If you get Woody's mods make sure you use a mono coils for good performance. The DD Coils lose too much and are not impressive on this modified SD2100V2 machine.

When I first got the machine back I wasn't happy because I tested it with DD coils. With DD coils it will not beat the GPX-4500 in any timing even on large targets.

I don't know why this is but it is what I found. Using the 11" DD coil I was getting about an extra 2" with the GPX-4500 in normal timings vs. the SD2100V2 in timing 3 for large targets.

With the Mono coil the SD2100V2 matched and even beat the GPX-4500 on large targets. I think this is because the DD coil loses sensitivity and the GPX-4500 is better on those really faint signals. (signal to noise ratio???)

I think most people are happy with Woody's mods. Sometimes they are hyped too much but if you keep your expectations realistic you can get

close to cutting edge performance out of these older models. (or beyond cutting edge in specialized situations like hunting large targets)

Best Regards,

Don

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I think that I have posted before, that I had both a good 2000 and a good Extreme for years, we always cross checked any deep targets that were picked up by the 2000 and the Extreme could pick up every target. It is still claimed a modded 2000 will go deeper then any other minelab Pi, Well I have seen impressive air tests ( which mean nothing to me) and impressive in ground test using very large coils on things like a coke can. I am willing to admit that these old modded SD's will go deeper then the others on a coke can, but I am still waiting to see a decent nugget at depth, from ANY of these modded SD's.

Nearly every week we see these modded SD's going cheap on ebay.

For my money, a well set up 4500, In normal, will get more and deeper gold then any of them.

One other thing to think about is how deep do you find gold with any of them?

I mostly use 18" coils and I've dug 3 foot holes at least 4 times that I can remember, every time it has been junk.

I may be unlucky but I find most gold at 18" or less and I have NEVER found "gold" at much over 2'.

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I think that I have posted before, that I had both a good 2000 and a good Extreme for years, we always cross checked any deep targets that were picked up by the 2000 and the Extreme could pick up every target. It is still claimed a modded 2000 will go deeper then any other minelab Pi, Well I have seen impressive air tests ( which mean nothing to me) and impressive in ground test using very large coils on things like a coke can. I am willing to admit that these old modded SD's will go deeper then the others on a coke can, but I am still waiting to see a decent nugget at depth, from ANY of these modded SD's.

Nearly every week we see these modded SD's going cheap on ebay.

For my money, a well set up 4500, In normal, will get more and deeper gold then any of them.

One other thing to think about is how deep do you find gold with any of them?

I mostly use 18" coils and I've dug 3 foot holes at least 4 times that I can remember, every time it has been junk.

I may be unlucky but I find most gold at 18" or less and I have NEVER found "gold" at much over 2'.

A GPX-4500 in Normal will go deep but I have major problems with mineralization in that timing. Many hot rocks scream like targets....drives me crazy.

All my gold found with the GPX-4500 has been less than 2 feet as well. I have dug some trash and old pick heads at greater depths.

I think the reason the modded SD's go for cheap on ebay is they don't live up to the hype. If I was to believe the hype the modded SD would blow

away the GPX-4500. It is simply not true. There are variations on the mods too so you don't know what has been done to those units on ebay.

Some mods are duds.

-Don

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Guest goldstudmuffin

Don and Inhere,

Don, what was the turn around time to have Woody do the modds on your 2100?

Inhere, I also had major problems with the 4000 in mineralization with the normal setting with a mono coil. It ran great over the same ground in sensitive but I know it will miss some nuggets in this settings. I've done a lot of testing with the 4000 in different setting and didn't like the way it will miss nuggets if not set to that particular ground, coil, and nugget.

Inhere, I've dug most of the big nuggets over 18" in washes.

Besides the GPX 4000 has another flaw... the only big nugget I found with it was a deffective one....

it had a dadgum hole in it! :blush:

I really like the simplicity of the 2100, I used one for years with Ismeal's GMP external modd and I loved it, I'm afraid that running the voltage as high as 8.5 volts is hard on 13 year old compoments and now that Minelab dropped the ball on service.

Flawed nugget found with the GPX4000... :spank:

post-42-1246900152_thumb.jpg

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