White's TDI

[Ridge Runner]

Digger Bob

You told me you were testing a after market coil was that correct?If so will it have less depth than the stock coil and are we talking DD are Mono?If you say both that has a good ring to it.

Chuck

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi,

The plan has always been to be compatible with existing coils but we will need time for tests and comparisons as the unit is optimised for its own coils. I used the Coiltek 24" x 12" mono and Platypus DD on the prototype and they worked fine but I think the TDI favors mono coils. The Coiltek probe and switch box worked fine with it also.

The TDI hipmounted and running the UFO is a killer beach sweeper!

But the White's coils are really ultralight and waterproof. A very nice stock coil.

Steve Herschbach

[frank c]

Well Steve an all, I hope this turns out to be "Whoopass in a flat black box".

[Digger Bob]

Hey Bob...the new TDI sounds like it could be a winner...Can you confirm that it will handle the ML coils and afermarket coils like CoilTek and Nuggetfinder? Thanks, Ron

Yes, it will work with all existing Coiltek and Nuggetfinder coils. I'm not sure about DD coils though. In my testing there was never a ground so bad that a DD was needed. The Whites coil is "mono", as are all planned coils to come. Time and field testing by many others will be needed to see if a DD is needed anywhere, even Oz. All the loops I was testing were smaller than the stock loop, so depth was less. But more sensitive to smaller targets, like most machines. And more stable in bad ground, again, like most machines.

Depth is not comparable to the Minelabs, never was intended to be. BUT, it does have some very positive advantages over the GP machines in other areas, so there are some tradeoffs.

Digger Bob

[fredm]

Bob, now that you are apparently free to speak...would you care to elaborate on those aspects that will make this very reasonablely priced machine a good addition to the tool-box...in your opinion.....

Fred

[Ridge Runner]

Digger Bob

Just let your words roll out because we want to hear about the testing you done and the finds plus depth.

You can post the manual so we know what your talking about and read the application of each control knob.

Chuck

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi Fred,

Oh, oh, let me, let me!

First, let's get the one and possibly only negative out of the way so people can't say I did not mention it. The Minelab units will more likely under most conditons hit a large nugget deeper. Less difference on smaller gold. How large is large, you ask? Good question, yet to be determined. But for multi-ounce safe to say Minelab. The GPX series modes also probably offer extra capability in certain ground types. That price tag does buy something!

The White's PulseScan TDI pluses - let's start with basics:

Drop in lithium ion battery pack

Visual LED battery indicator - green good, yellow warning, red change now

Built in speaker and headphone jack

May be easily hip or chest mounted

Stock coil is waterproof

Audio - some Minelab users may not like this but most people coming from VLF will. The Infinium and Minelabs are dual tone, either hi-lo or lo-hi. The TDI generates either a lo tone or a hi tone. In target rich locations this results in a 50% reduction in the noise coming at the operator. It also makes it easier to pick one tone out of the middle of a bunch of others. It also enables what I think is the coolest feature on the unit.

Shutting off one tone will not work on an Infinium or Minelab, since both kinds of targets make both kinds of tones. Since the TDI generates only one tone per target, it was easy to come up with a switch to enable either hi, lo, or both tones. This is the first PI you can buy that can suppress some targets. But just having a single tone per target is nice and so the unit acts and sounds more like an analog VLF unit than a PI.

Manual ground balance. This is very important because the ground balance sets the break point between the tones and allows some flexibility in setting that point. Some targets will always be hi tone, some always lo, and a third group of targets will flip-flop depending on where you set the control.

Adjustable pulse delay, allowing the unit to be optimized for gold or silver targets. In general for gold run a shorter delay and for silver a longer delay. This may affect some tone responses but more experimentation is needed there.

The ability to shut off the ground balance for extra depth in low mineral ground. This option was on the original Goldscan base unit and is now also offered on the GPX-4500. The ground balance is a filter and does rob depth in low mineral ground, and so many beach hunters will want to shut it off. But you will go to monotone operation and so the unit becomes a dig-it-all unit.

There has been confusion with this option because air tests make it appear the GB mode loses a lot of depth compared to the non-GB mode. Well, yes, in an air test or low mineral ground that is true. Same with the GPX-4500. But in high mineral ground you get EXTRA depth in GB mode compared to non-GB mode. There i a theoretical ground mineralization point where both modes will get about the same depth. The non-GB mode bodes well for those few prospectors like me that have small gold in low mineral ground but will probably be of more use for other types of hunters, especially beach hunters.

Compatible with most Minelab Commander, Coiltek, and Nugget Finder SD/GP coils. Monos preferred. I do not think the old Nugget Finder XP coils will work.

Another big deal - the unit is almost immune to electrical interference. I ran it in the middle of Anchorage near high tension power lines, no problem. Under a power pole with a transformer on it, no problem. In Hawaii where I've had issues before due to military bases, no problem. I ran it in my office under the overhead flourescent lights, no problem! The unit appears as good or even better than VLF units in this regard. Amazing and the main reason why this unit will be getting lots of use from me in an urban setting.

Assuming White's matches their other models, a two year TRANSFERABLE warranty. Helps hold resale value the first couple years. Try for a year and if it is not your cup of tea, sell it with a one year warranty.

Made in the United States!

Last but not least, MSRP under $1600. Cut the best deal you can but right now just getting one is a chore. Apparently first units are going out to previous testers for one last comment. Mine is on the way. And as I have hinted a lot, I can now promise there will be three or four units at Moore Creek for my to play with.

I hope to have mine before the weekend and be out hunting with it all weekend so more info from me and others soon.

Steve Herschbach

P.S. I apologize if the preceding sounds like hype. I tried to just list what I see as strong points. I'm truly just pumped up about this unit as I think I am pretty much just a detector nerd. I like new toys, and something new to learn. This unit is different enough to be, well, different! I've been wanting to do a lot more than just nugget hunt with GBPI units but the biggest problem has been noise/false signals. The TDI solves that. So forgive me if I seem overly excited by this unit but it is only because I've been waiting for it for about three years now.

[Ridge Runner]

Steve

Thanks for your post on the TDI.I know if you get all the units you want for Moore Creek it will be a interesting season.

Whites may have a run on this PI and like Minelab they'll be on backorder.Do you know if the manaul has been written as of yet?It would make for some interesting reading and if Whites post it on their site I will download it.

I hope you and the nugget hunters that come to Moore Creek this year have the best finds ever.

Chuck

[lrsafari]

Steve,

Man what a bunch of hyped up selling that is!!!!!!!!!!

Now, I will PM you my credit card number, home address, childrens names, SSN numbers for the whole family

Kidding aside, thanks for the info and experience. Nice to start hearing some details emerge and a few of the TDI's trickle out as well.

Scott

[Digger Bob]

Thanks Steve! That's a much more detailed esplanation than I could have given. And that would have taken me all day to write. You must still be snowed in up there.

Yes, to everything Steve said. My testing on this has been more limited than I would have liked. I didn't get a good working unit until early winter and all my best places were then snowed under. So, I've had to test it under less than ideal gold producing conditions. I should have my own unit in a day or so and will have it with me at Rye Patch over Memorial Day weekend. I'm hoping to test it on undug targets against the Minelab to compare REAL depth and responses.

One of the things I like best is the hip/chest mount capability. Those of you I've met in the field know that I chest mount all my Minelabs and Goldmasters. Even if it's a light machine like a Goldmaster, I can hunt much longer and my arm is not as sore the next day.

Also, the lack of any kind of interference is wonderful! No more airplane noise, power lines, radios, generating stations, etc.

And smooth, stable operation in bad ground at max gain. Ok, a little wobbly, but you can still hunt.

Battery life is long, but I don't know for sure yet exactly how long. I used one battery for 10 hours and it still showed all 3 lights meaning it still had life. How much time is left when the first light goes out, I don't know yet.

The biggest negative that I can say that the engineers have not yet been able to solve, is the matter of a battery charger. The machine will come with a wall charger but not a cigarette lighter charger. Because the unit runs on 18 V, nothing on the market will charge it from a vehicle. Solar or a generator could be done, but they haven't come up with a cheap and easy alternative that will work for everyone. This means that if you are going bush for a week, you only have 2 batteries and no way to charge them. You can buy extra batteries, but Lithium Ions are not cheap!

More later as I think of them!

Digger Bob

Hi Fred,

Oh, oh, let me, let me!

First, let's get the one and possibly only negative out of the way so people can't say I did not mention it. The Minelab units will more likely under most conditons hit a large nugget deeper. Less difference on smaller gold. How large is large, you ask? Good question, yet to be determined. But for multi-ounce safe to say Minelab. The GPX series modes also probably offer extra capability in certain ground types. That price tag does buy something!

The White's PulseScan TDI pluses - let's start with basics:

Drop in lithium ion battery pack

Visual LED battery indicator - green good, yellow warning, red change now

Built in speaker and headphone jack

May be easily hip or chest mounted

Stock coil is waterproof

Audio - some Minelab users may not like this but most people coming from VLF will. The Infinium and Minelabs are dual tone, either hi-lo or lo-hi. The TDI generates either a lo tone or a hi tone. In target rich locations this results in a 50% reduction in the noise coming at the operator. It also makes it easier to pick one tone out of the middle of a bunch of others. It also enables what I think is the coolest feature on the unit.

Shutting off one tone will not work on an Infinium or Minelab, since both kinds of targets make both kinds of tones. Since the TDI generates only one tone per target, it was easy to come up with a switch to enable either hi, lo, or both tones. This is the first PI you can buy that can suppress some targets. But just having a single tone per target is nice and so the unit acts and sounds more like an analog VLF unit than a PI.

Manual ground balance. This is very important because the ground balance sets the break point between the tones and allows some flexibility in setting that point. Some targets will always be hi tone, some always lo, and a third group of targets will flip-flop depending on where you set the control.

Adjustable pulse delay, allowing the unit to be optimized for gold or silver targets. In general for gold run a shorter delay and for silver a longer delay. This may affect some tone responses but more experimentation is needed there.

The ability to shut off the ground balance for extra depth in low mineral ground. This option was on the original Goldscan base unit and is now also offered on the GPX-4500. The ground balance is a filter and does rob depth in low mineral ground, and so many beach hunters will want to shut it off. But you will go to monotone operation and so the unit becomes a dig-it-all unit.

There has been confusion with this option because air tests make it appear the GB mode loses a lot of depth compared to the non-GB mode. Well, yes, in an air test or low mineral ground that is true. Same with the GPX-4500. But in high mineral ground you get EXTRA depth in GB mode compared to non-GB mode. There i a theoretical ground mineralization point where both modes will get about the same depth. The non-GB mode bodes well for those few prospectors like me that have small gold in low mineral ground but will probably be of more use for other types of hunters, especially beach hunters.

Compatible with most Minelab Commander, Coiltek, and Nugget Finder SD/GP coils. Monos preferred. I do not think the old Nugget Finder XP coils will work.

Another big deal - the unit is almost immune to electrical interference. I ran it in the middle of Anchorage near high tension power lines, no problem. Under a power pole with a transformer on it, no problem. In Hawaii where I've had issues before due to military bases, no problem. I ran it in my office under the overhead flourescent lights, no problem! The unit appears as good or even better than VLF units in this regard. Amazing and the main reason why this unit will be getting lots of use from me in an urban setting.

Assuming White's matches their other models, a two year TRANSFERABLE warranty. Helps hold resale value the first couple years. Try for a year and if it is not your cup of tea, sell it with a one year warranty.

Made in the United States!

Last but not least, MSRP under $1600. Cut the best deal you can but right now just getting one is a chore. Apparently first units are going out to previous testers for one last comment. Mine is on the way. And as I have hinted a lot, I can now promise there will be three or four units at Moore Creek for my to play with.

I hope to have mine before the weekend and be out hunting with it all weekend so more info from me and others soon.

Steve Herschbach

P.S. I apologize if the preceding sounds like hype. I tried to just list what I see as strong points. I'm truly just pumped up about this unit as I think I am pretty much just a detector nerd. I like new toys, and something new to learn. This unit is different enough to be, well, different! I've been wanting to do a lot more than just nugget hunt with GBPI units but the biggest problem has been noise/false signals. The TDI solves that. So forgive me if I seem overly excited by this unit but it is only becasue I've been waiting for it for about three years now.

[Goldman]

A PI detctor has to be wired a certain way to use DD coils, as well as, the coils have to have their connector wired properly. Don

[fredm]

First, Steve, I don't think you ever have to apologize for your opinions...but I understand the reasons for your disclaimer....

I appreciate yours and Bob's replies and it sounds like the machine I had hoped for way back when...after you both get a little more time on the ground don't surprised if I get on your list....

Just a reminder of the charging problem I had at Moore Creek with that GS5 was that it would not charge from the batteries like the Minelabs would...I don't have the technical know-how to explain but using an inverter from 12 volt to 110 to charge the GS5 didn't work well....charging directly off the generator worked ok except those batteries required many hours of charging...not dredging up the old gs5 stuff, just reminding you, Steve, of a problem that may be relevant to the TDI...

It appears you will have plenty of new toys to play with....wah, wah...I wanna play...wah

Best wishes

Fred

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi Fred,

One of the first things I will be noting is run time on a fully charged battery and time to fully charge a dead battery. But I'm not expecting any issues in that regard.

Goldman, I ran a DD coil on the unit and it worked but I should have played with it more carefully to see if both halves ofthe coil responded. Another thing to check. I have about 20 coils to try on the unit.

White's is approaching this unit way different than anything it has ever done before. Is that cryptic enough?

Steve Herschbach

[Lytle78]

As far as recharging from your truck or car's 12v system, a car power adapter for a laptop will probably work. My Fujitsu tablet PC adapter puts out 18v at 4 amps with a 12 v input.

Rick K

[Steve Herschbach]

Hmmm,

I seem to recall the prototype as having a 14.4 volt battery pack. But that was not the Lithium Ion. Maybe higher voltage and regulated down? Guess we will have to wait and see.

Steve Herschbach

[Lytle78]

I checked my fujitsu Tablet PC battery. The battery is 10.8 v. The car adapter puts out 18v and the battery charges fine. The AC adapter puts out 16 v. and works OK. The PC is stickered for a 16v DC input when running on external power through the car adapter or AC adapter.

I'm no EE, but it looks like a charger should be somewhat above the battery voltage - so 14.4v battery and 18v wall plug dc adapter sounds plausable.

By the way - these Fujitsu Stylistic tablet PC's are currently cheaper than dirt on ebay. I paid about $150 each for several of them (one included the car adapter). They run Windows 2000 and make great in car navigation displays with Ozi Explorer or any of the Topo map navigation programs. Models include 3400, 3500 and C-500. Don't buy one without the HD included. It will not have the cable for the HD and these are impossible to find.

[fredm]

Thanks Steve...I only wanted to bring that charging issue to your mind so you could be prepared...redundant as that may be for someone like you....

Fred

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi,

Battery is a 14.4V Li-Ion. Charger is 16.8V 1000mA output. Steve H