Over-Clocking Processors ?????

[AZNuggetBob]

Hey Rob, Still alive and well. good to hear from you. Ive been working on a new project. Its been so hot out I decided to build a new computer. It seems that the latest rage in computers is to over-clock them. From what I understand of this so far Over-clocking is not simply over powering the processors as many of us are doing on the Minelab 2000-2100. It is more of an over power in a controlled manner rather than just simply raising the volts. I have ordered a digital plug in device that can do this to most processors and raise the power and speed up to five times normal without frying components. I really think this method can be used on metal detectors. Im still studying this and would like to hear from anyone else out there that is interested or has knowlege of this. Take care AzNuggetBob

[Martin]

hey Bob

why dont you shoot an email off to "Woody" he doing some work on the old 2000's at the moment

Martin

[way2cool]

Hi AzNuggetBob,

Way to go on building your PC if you plan it right you will never have to buy another

one again just upgrade components. Overclocking = voided warranty,more heat, and the

components don't last as long.

Rich

[AZNuggetBob]

Hi AzNuggetBob,

Way to go on building your PC if you plan it right you will never have to buy another

one again just upgrade components. Overclocking = voided warranty,more heat, and the

components don't last as long.

Rich

Hi Rich, I just purchased a new Abit AW8-D motherboard for my new computer that has Guru technology built-in. It is specifically designed by the factory for overclocking within an onboard program that you can view on your monitor screen, but they also make an optional external panel meter that attaches to the tower and controls all the overclocking of the processor manually with push button controls on the backlit LCD meter. Amps,Volts, power frequency etc. The meter drives the chips to their max without voiding warranty. Anyway I've been having some over heating problems on my SD 2100 especially this time of year with the heat were having in Arizona. I'm running 7.2-8 Volts on my SD. I was just thinking this meter may solve some my overheating problems on my SD and let me regulate the voltage in a more controlled manner. The meter even has hard wired chip temp sensors and automaticly starts, stops or regulates the speed of the cooling fans on the board. Why not do the same thing on my SD? The whole design is to keep overclockers from overcooking both internally and externally the board components. Just a thought. AzNuggetBob

[Dakota Slim]

I think you may be onto something Bob. I am putting together a series of 12 volt fans to help keep the water pipes from freezing up in my motorhome. They are each rated at about 300 MA. Less amps or volts and they run slow, more amps or volts and they scream. The only thermostat I could find is 120 volt so I built an inverter into the equation and then had to add a transformer with the correct amperage to get back to 12 volts.

You have to give the guys at Minelab and the other manufacturers some credit. I'm sure they have done all kinds of experimenting in developing their various models. Then again, they have to warranty them as well so there could be some leeway in voltage if a guy wasn't worried about burning out some components and/or voiding the warranty.

Maybe Rob would let you do some experiments with his 4000.

[AZNuggetBob]

Hi Slim, I dont think so, Rob wont even let me hold his 4000 I keep asking him to go head to head with my Sd 2100 but I think we both know his 4000 will out shoot my 2100 He has been picking up nuggets right behind me in some of the local beat to death patches in the area. AzNuggetBob

[Dakota Slim]

My guess is there is a lot more in those "beat to death patches", especially around Rich Hill. Elly has the right idea. You can either wait for the Minelab 6000 and dig deeper holes or get a dozer.

[AZNuggetBob]

I agree Slim, I only refer to these patches as beat to death because its a commonly used term around here. Unless a patch is shallow in depth its never really beat to death. Its just waiting for newer detector or bull dozer. Elly has had the right idea for years. Then their are those of us in the middle that like tinkering with electronics to get more depth from the older detectors. Its more of a hobby for me but you can get more depth from an older SD. There are a lot of us out there. I have not had the chance to see inside the Minelab 4000 yet, That is why I jokingly said Rob wont even let me hold his. He knows I like taking things apart. Here are some photos of what I did with the Coiltek regulator. I had it apart within hours of Rob dropping it off and started building my own modified version. I needed more voltage for my SD 2100 so I set up my version to run at 7.2-8 volts internally adjustable. The coiled wire plugs into my sound inhancer. The case is a gutted out lithium ion battery charger case. I included a meter so I can keep track of battery condition. When you flip the rocker switch to the other side it tells you how many volts are going to the detector out of the regulator. Center position is off. It works well except for the Minelab processor over heating problem. I was hoping someone out there could share some ideas on overclocking to help solve this problem. Take care AzNuggetBob

[nuggethunting]

Hey AZNuggetBob,

Be careful not to run your SD2100 at more than 8.5+ volts for too long. I've heard (never personally experienced it), that running over about 8.5 volts will make the SD very erratical and can damage the Mother Board.

I think we need to do some testing on some old patches and see what we can turn up.

Talk with you later,

Rob Allison

[Uncle Ron]

Hi Bob...I ran my SD2100 for about a year on 8.2 volts....It was noisey as hell, but I seemed to have a good uptic in my gold finding...The more I used it, though, the more it was apparent to me that all I really was doing was enhancing the audio by putting more juice...Not actually shooting juice deeper in the ground...So I got a coiltek signal enhancer and have the same results but even better because I also added some black widows...Between the controls on the two, I can achieve the same thing as when I was using the higher voltage...Course, I'm also using the pocket rocket which puts out 7 point something volts (I forget what)...When I was using the 8.2 volts I was stepping it down to 8.2 with a couple of diodes...Well, one day something went wrong, there was a horrible screech then zip, nada, nothing...The diodes were dead ...I was sure I'd fried my 2100 so I sent it to ML in Vegas...They opened it up, checked it out and said there was nothing wrong and sent it back...It worked fine after that but the higher voltage battery setup was dead...I went back to the old lead acid 6 volts for a while then upgraded to the setup described above...Now, I'm a happy guy ... Cheers, Ron

[AZNuggetBob]

Hey Rob, I gave up on 8.5 volts a long time ago. I had heard that there were other people running 8.5v on their power supplies but I could never get any of my systems up to that level without major background noise. It sounds alot like RF interference, almost like standing under a power line.I finally settled on 8v max. At 8v I can still hear the Alien cross talk or chatter and that is were I get the best sensitivity on my SD 2100 in the air and ground tests. Lately it seems to be the heat. I keep thinking this heat wave were having is going to break but so far it aint happening. If I run my Sd indoors it doent have any problems but If I take it out hunting in this heat it only runs stable for an hour or two and begins to get unstable and looses alot of sensitivty? Im sure its the heat, Im hoping someone may some ideas on cooling to solve this problem. There is'nt much room in the control box for a cooling fan. Im looking at some of the new cooling methods they are using in the new overclocked computers these days.

Hi Ron

With out seeing your diode power supply I would be guessing at may have caused it to fail. I have heard of other people using diode based power supplies with no problems? Right off hand it could have been that the diodes did not have a high enough rating to handle the Minelab start up spike. I had that problem when I was useing a shunt regulator power supply. Minelab Sd's require over a 1 amp start draw and then settle down to around 500-700 mA constant draw depending on the accsessories you have,audio Preamps,etc. As far as gel cells in my opinion they suck. since I tried li-ions I'll never go back. Lipo's are even better from what Ive heard they last longer but have not had a chance or the time to prove that theory. I use sony's now but when I first started building these power supples I ran out and purchased some Canon camcorder batteries, They dont work! you see not all camcorder batteries are created equal. Lithium batteries have a mini saftey board concealed inside the battery case. It does three things, It keeps the battery from being over charged, over drained or dead shorted which can result in a serious exsplosion. Its the over drain part that creates a problem with Minelabs. Remember the start-up spike I mentioned earlier, Sony batteries are the only ones Ive found so far that are internally set up to handle this start up spike without shutting them selfs down. If it happens in most cases you can just plug the battery back into the charger and it resets the chip. Here is a photo of one I replaced in a Canon battery, But Ill tell ya it aint worth the hassel.Take care AzNuggetBob

[nuggethunting]

Hello AZNuggetBob,

The heat does have something to do with metal detector performance. I have yet to figure out what exactly it is, but I believe static plays a bit part. In Arizona during the summer months the Minelab PI's seem to run great in the early morning hours, but several hours after the Sun raises the metal detectors start to make more noise, which is not easily controlled by tuning.

I do know for a fact that during the Summer Monsoon seasons here in Arizona the PI detectors "can" go nuts at times. I know you can actually hear the Lightning strikes in the distance through the metal detector.

Take care,

Rob Allison

[AZNuggetBob]

Hey Rob, I had a lot of problems with the military jets flying over me. I've heard its their radar jamming that causes all the interference? As far a lightning I remember hunting a patch up in Prescott during a storm and there was a barbed wire fence above me on the hillside and every time I got within about 25' from it my SD started to hum in a weird way???? static charge? I assumed the fence was a lightning magnet and stayed clear of it all day. On a similar subject what do you think about lightning charging up nuggets in the ground. Have you ever heard of this? I debated this subject with some old huntin buddies a few years ago. Some believe it some don't. All I can say is I make it point to go out huntin after lightning storms and have done well. Psychological ? maybe. Take care AzNuggetBob

[Leaverite]

Bob

I thought I'd post this link to Tomshardware for ya.You may have it already but I think it's one of the better sites on computer hardware,(over-clocking and what not) checkher out.Tom's Hardware.

I also need to dig out what I have on rocket motor's and make some copy,s for you.

[nuggethunting]

Hello AZNuggetBob,

I still have trouble at times with airplanes. With the GPX-4000 you do have more control over the tune, but you still have to play with it a bit. There have been a few that I couldn't tune out, maybe different type of radar or planes (not sure ..).

I've done well at Rich Hill and other places where there are deeper nuggets hiding after a good rain. However, never really hunted an area after just a Lightning storm.

Not sure about the Lightning charging the gold nuggets. We do know gold nuggets are conductors, gold being the second best conductor of electricity behind silver. Electricity is always trying to find a path to ground (Earth), so this is why Lightning strikes the ground. Lightning can carry as much as 1,000KV's or 1,000,000 volts. Clouds are light huge capacitors, the tops of clouds are positive charged and the lower negative.

The charged gold nuggets is interesting to say the least ...

Rob Allison

[Goldman]

Over-clocking has to do with the speed a computer proccess's, to my knowledge has nothing to do with the proccessing a metal detectors IC"s work. If you start messing with those you will undoubtly has a big computer repair bill, as well as, messing with voltaage on the new models. Don

[AZNuggetBob]

Hi Dennis How you been doin, findin any big-uns? I check out that link you posted, a lot of info there thanks. Yes I would be very interested in seeing any info you would care to share on rocket motors or propellant recipes.

Rob I think that subject came up in the the discussion I mentioned earlier with the prospecting friends. Some felt that just the fact the ground was wet after a storm may be what made the nuggets easier to detect. I personally don't like to detect until the ground dry's a bit. Just damp seems to be best. When the ground is still wet the detector seems to have a very hard time staying balanced. Have you ever found a large nugget and gone back the next day and just for grins rechecked the hole and picked up a ghost signal that faded away after a few days? or you dig out the dirt around the edge to see if the nugget had a buddy in the hole with it and the signal just fades away, could it be the Electro static charge, leaching, or the just hole drying out? Take care AzNuggetBob

Goldman

From what I've been finding out lately there is a lot more to overclocking these days than just overpowering the circuit board. One thing I found was that the overclockers (gamers) are specifically directing controlled and sometimes frequency altered power to (specific) components in the circuit. Rather than just raising the voltage from the beginning of the circuit as many of us are doing with the Minelab SD. There is also more to overclocking than just raising the volts to the CPU. It would seem that overclocking is a viable option to improving metal detecting performance. Heat is always a problem with electronics, controlling the heat is the key. I think your correct about it shortening the life span of the detector but were already doing that anyway to find more nuggets and in a not very controlled way by just simply raising the voltage. Applying more power the circuit does prematurly age the components and if your looking at it from that point of veiw, is it worth repairs to find more gold? I'm just trying to learn more and cut down on repairs. AzNuggetBob

[Geezeron]

Hardcore gamers want as much performance as they can get from their computers. They can do this (highly simplified explanation follows) by running the microprocessor and some of its peripheral components at a higher speed (clock rate). However, this cannot generally be done without increasing the voltage on the parts that are to be overclocked (higher voltage increases the maximum possible operating speed of most silicon chips). Increasing the voltage increases the heat generated by the component, as does increasing the clock frequency. Overclockers spend a lot of time and money removing the additional heat generated.

The following is speculation based on my 40+ years as an EE:

Some metal detectors have microprocessors (uP), but I don't know if any of them have a uP directly involved in the detection process. I believe they are used in managing the controls, and the display (if any). Even if there are detectors with uPs involved in the detection process, I doubt that clock speed is a limiting factor on performance.

Raising the voltage on a PI detector may improve performance by increasing the current to the coil, which will increase the detection depth (unless the detector has an internal voltage regulator). I suspect that some do have internal regulators. For example, on my GP3000, I have observed that the battery current actually increases slightly as the voltage drops. This is opposite to what would happen without an internal regulator, but is consistent with the presence of a switching regulator. If someone can confirm or repudiate this, I would really appreciate it. Maybe it is common knowledge among the more experienced nugget shooters.

Ron

[Reg]

Hi Ron,

Your 3000 does have a switching regulator and ML's use a uP for the timing. Increase the clock speed you gain a little on small gold, but lose on the bigger stuff. Go the other way and you gain on the large gold, lose on the small stuff. This is the basics of how ML has been increasing the sensitiivty to small gold.

Several people have played with the clock speeds. I believe that is what is done on the SD 2000's when they are modded.

BTW, Woody (from OZ) is modifying a SD 2000 now and has been discussing it both on the ProspectinginOZ forum and on the Geotech forum, for those who are interested. Most of the technical info is on the Geotech forum for those of you who want to know how ML's work internally.

Here is a link to some of the info on the Geotech forum;

http://www.thunting.com/geotech/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Here is the link to the POZ forum;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProspectinginOz/

Reg

[Geezeron]

Thanks, Reg, that makes sense. I'm guessing that ML can modify the timing by changing the programming. It probably doesn't require an increase in clock speed. Modders don't have that option. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't want to come off as a know-it-all here, because I'm far from it. It's just that, from what I know about computers and metal detectors, overclocking to improve an MD's depth performance just doesn't compute, if you'll pardon the expression. I hadn't considered the possibility of finding smaller gold.

Ron

[Reg]

Hi Ron,

Modders change the crystals to change the operation of the SD's. Woody does a good job of explaining several things he has done including changing the crystals on the Geotech forum.

I think on some of the SD 2000 mods, the operator can change crystal frequencies to change how the detector works.

My best guess is you increase the clock speed, which shortens the pulse on time and the delay, which will result in better sensitivity to small gold.

Reduce the clock speed, you increase the pulse on time, which helps in detecting large gold.

Reg