blm now after miners

[Glenn]

I just got back from the Bundy ranch 1 year reunion when we were leaving we got an alert from the ranch that BLM is amassing agents at a mine in Oregon to throw them off of their land. For everybody that thought the Bundys were just a bunch of people that didn't want to pay their fees these miners are miners who have tried to comply but BLM has chosen to harass them even though their claims predate BLM's existence once again we have a government agency gone rogue and overstepping their boundaries even to the point of being unconstitutional I don't believe it's going to stop with just harassing ranchers and miners I think there's much more at stake hereif we all don't stand together we won't have any lands to prospect on to ranch on 2 ride our four wheelers or even to go hikinganytime any agency of the government feels they are above the law I believe it's time to bring in the oath keepers and force them to live up to their oath to protect and defend the Constitution. Hopefully this can also end peacefully.

[Ccarson]

I had a friend tell me about this yesterday. He told me that their are a bunch of miners heading up there to help out. I hope it all ends well.

[adam]

Sounds like the whole thing has been settled, or at least dormant for now......

[nugget108]

They want it all. We get nothing.

[jim straight]

Good Morning All. Glenn, am I missing something? The Department of Interior was created as I best remember in

1946 and to my best knowledge; there is no grandfather clause and all of the BLM and FS rules and requlations

are the same for all of us; however the state regulations may be modified... just asking; I have no axe to grind and

just a physically 'stove-up' old prospector. "tailgate jim straight"

[clay]

Jim the Multiple Surface Use Mining Act of 1955 reserved the surface materials and surface management on mining claims to the United States.

Prior to the 1955 Act mining claimants could use the surface at will as long as the uses were reasonably incident to mining. Claims located after the 1955 Act are subject to surface management by the BLM. Post 1955 locations could no longer use the surface resources by simple right but were subject to surface management agency regulations. Claims could now be accessed by the general public for non mineral activities.

The rule that surface activities and use must be reasonably incident to mining did not change with the 1955 Act but the ability of claimants to use the surface for those uses was now subject to agency management of the surface resources. Only claims made after the passage of the 1955 Act were affected by this change.

Between 1955 and 1976 the only real effect on miners of the changes brought about by the 1955 act was that the land management agency could dispose of the surface resources on the claim as long as it didn't interfere with the mining activities there. The claimant still had a right to use the surface resources for mining, including rock, sand, gravel and timber. Timber could still be taken for building, shoring or any other use incident to mining of the claim. If the timber had already been disposed of by the land management agency that agency was required to provide the miner with suitable timber from other managed lands.

All this is still applicable today but in 1976 the Federal Land Policy Management Act (FLPMA) was passed. The land management agencies were given new, more all encompassing, land management duties. Mining was mostly exempted from those changes and the mineral patent grant was the only self initiated land patent grant that survived in the Act. The BLM did get their long asked for annual claim informational filings and the land managers were instructed to prevent "undue or unnecessary" damage to the surface resources from mining. The new duties of these land managers was often misunderstood to apply to controlling mining on public lands despite the savings clauses and the obvious intent of Congress and the law to restrict their management to surface resources.

Even though you were a young man then I'm sure you were aware of the changes that were taking place in land management during that time. A different breed of forester and manager were joining the agencies. Gradually the internal emphasis of these agencies moved from resource management to resource conservation. An attitude of public service was replaced by a culture of public user control. The duties of the job changed little but the goals and priorities of the managers was turned 180 degrees. Being an old guy I can tell you this was disturbing to the experienced "old school" land managers but the change was inevitable due to turnover and a different training culture. Things change. Things are still changing. The pendulum is swinging the other way again.

The claim in question in Oregon was located in 1876. The Sugar Pine Mine claim has been continuously maintained for the entire time. The claim seems to have retained it's pre 1955 right to the surface resources. The dispute seems to revolve around some buildings and installed equipment at the mine. The BLM believes the claim owners must present a plan of operations before they can occupy the site with structures and mining equipment. The claim owners refuse to do so because they are not a valid subject of the post 1955 surface management duties of the BLM. The claim owners believe the BLM intends to bulldoze and burn their surface structures. The BLM says that's not the case.

There is a lot of legal precedence to support the position of the claim owners. The BLM managers have several contrary duties and seem to be having problems sorting out the priority of rights associated with those duties. The BLM State legal counsel has advised them they are on "shaky ground" but the management has decided to proceed with a noncompliance notice nonetheless.

I don't know the facts on the ground. The Sugar Pine Mine is a lode claim that is on steep ground above Galice Creek. I don't know if the claim owners are actively mining or the nature of the buildings and equipment being used there.

There may be some confusion as to just where the structures and mining equipment are located. Just adjacent to the 1876 Sugar Pine Mine is the Sugar Pine Mine South Extension lode located in 1975. That lode claim is on less steep ground and is accessible by the Galice Creek Road. That claim is of course not pre 1955 and is subject to surface management. The claim owners of both those claims are officers of the Galice Mining District. The Galice is a small, active and very old district.

I hope that helps.

Barry

[Glenn]

I watched an interview with the miner this morning. When the miner told the sheriff that he was exercising his constitutional rights the sheriff told him that he had a problem with the constitution. This from a man who took an oath to protect and defend that constitution. Federal government agencies all seem to be overstepping their authority on a more regular basis and becoming much more militaristic. This is a disturbing trend to say the least. The presumption of innocence until proven guilty seems to have been lost somewhere. This is no longer the country I grew up in. The declaration of independence states that when a government no longer serves the people it is their right and duty to replace it with one that does , the best way to do that is to elect constitutional sheriffs and all other offices on the state and local level. The sheriff is the highest ranking law official in his county, we need good sheriffs to defend our rights from over reaching federal communist as.

[Grubstake1]

They are going to keep this crap up, until some of us, make Iraq, look like a childs sand box. Grubstake

[deathray]

Everyone who is sick and tired of this crap,I implore you to check out AMRA! Shannon walks the talk,and he has been winning battles like this.

[jim straight]

Sadly this post could antagonize some posters... However, in my short lifetime, just a mico-second of time geologically,

I have seen many changes. Buck Rogers spaceship and Dick Tracy's wristwatch are now antiquated. I hope and plan

to live another 15 or so years just to see what is happening; today there is controversity about everything. It seems every

one now agrees to disagree.

I cannot understand as just one example why parents would object to their youngsters be vaxinated for the multitude

of childhood diseases that kept me and my childhood chums outa school. Mumps and measles... Hey they came in

varieties and left both visible and invisible scars... I sure wish there were vaxinations. My hearing loss was one product.

I could go on an on... A sign of old age...But I'm still a kid at heart...

Unfortunatly All I learned during my school-years at the Mackay School of Mines at the University of

Nevada is outdated... Hey the Mackay School of Mines is now gone, and the small friendly campus I remember

is one large overflowing mass of activity.I still have my slide-rule, but now a $1.50 calculator has replaced that...

I still have most of my mining and geology textbooks, but .... Nuff said...

Keep positive.... The future is now here... And keep in mind, but be positive about it: Extinctions are now a fact

of life, but "man" will survive if we don't selfdistruct... So, as I posted earlier I have no axe to grind and I'm just

one grain of sand on the beach of life... My Best to All... And GOD BLESS ALL... tailgate

[nugget108]

Very well put Jim. Society has definitely changed a lot. Even in my short 34 years I have seen a lot of changes within our society and just people in general. There are a lot of people out there that think we need to just keep our butts home and out of the hills and deserts. Sad times.

[Ridge Runner]

Well you nugget hunters we'll be next. One day you see this guy coming your way as you nugget hunt. Oh it's just one guy from BLM and he's there to tell you that you can't hunt for gold on HIS land anymore. You now can get a permit but you also have to pay a added fee for each day you hunt. The reasoning behind this fee is so they can get their cut out of the gold you may find and not report.

I joke a lot but this isn't nothing to do with any joke.

Chuck Anders

PS Just ask any coin hunter he has ran into this already.

[DolanDave]

Some people/ Prospectors dont like sharing this. You have to start thinking outside the box nowadays..... beat them at their game. I've been approached by officials way out in the middle of the desert, wanting to search my person, and vehicle several times, while prospecting. There are legal ways with permits of coarse to hunt on any type of lands. Anything else found such as a nugget is left in the dirt, winkwink....